Darth Hater - Are The Old Republic's Sith Actually Evil?

10/5/09 11:11 AM -

Are The Old Republic's Sith Actually Evil?

, posted October 5th, 2009 at 11:11 AM

Since the announcement of Star Wars: The Old Republic, there has been a continuing discusion over whether or not the Sith are actually "evil". The original movies seem to point that direction, however the expanded universe has proclaimed them to simply be a different point of view. The real question for those of us following TOR's development is, "Are The Old Republic's Sith evil?"

When it was discovered that TOR would be using both a two faction system (Republic and Sith) as well as a morality system (light, neutral, dark), many in the community began to argue whether or not there would be the ability to switch factions based on your morality. There is certainly precedence that a Jedi who falls to the dark side can be considered a Sith, at least in title, so this seemed like an obvious assumption. Then BioWare told us that there was no reason for that, as there could be "Dark Jedi" or "Light Side Sith".

BioWare stated that everyone in The Old Republic belongs to their respective side because of national affiliation, not moral point of view. The thought being that an Allied soldier in WW2 could be "bad" and still be fighting for a positive cause while an Axis soldier could be "good" and yet continue fighting for a negative cause. What culture a person associates themselves with supersedes their moral stance in these cases. This justification would allow for Dark Jedi and Light Sith, but it didn't answer the question over whether or not the Sith Empire was evil itself.

Many Star Wars fans contend that the Sith Empire isn't innately bad, more that it's based on different ideals.They focus on the Sith believing more in passion and emotion then the cold, distant Jedi. Under this premise, it is easy to see how such human emotions could lead some to fall to the allure of power and be considered "evil", but nothing about this means the empire itself is malevolent.

If you examine these lines of thought, it's easy to see where the confusion comes in. Is BioWare claiming that the Sith Empire is evil by saying that "good" people can belong to "bad" organizations? Or are they stating that the empire, as a whole, is not evil because it consists of both Dark and Light sided individuals? The recent developer blog may have answered this.

"Where is this all leading? Thats up to you. You can serve dutifully and pound away by the letter of your masters law, or you can risk plotting to someday destroy him and grab his power (as Vader reveals in his plea for Luke to join him). You can even have secret designs to redeem yourself, embrace the light and destabilize the Empire from within." - Neil Pollner

This quote seems toimplies that the Sith Empire, as BioWare sees it, is actually evil. The idea being that if a Lightsided person would want to destabilize the government then the Empire must be Dark Sided. If this is true, it wouldn't be too surprising considering how strongly BioWare relates TOR to the core movies as opposed to the EU. While we still don't have a conclusive statement from BioWare regarding this point of view, this could be a crushing blow to those fans looking for a more open view on the Sith Empire.

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20 Comments

Comment by DarthSithLord made on January 13th, 2010 at 1:06pm

Not really...check this quote from Daniel Erickson on this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8A8f3fWTGc @ 3:51

"We have two things, which are faction and morality. I think the people confuse the Dark Side/Lightside alignment. One thing important for us is that the Sith are not cartoons. If you are going to play a character in a role playing game. They cannot wake up in the morning and say "oh lets have some evil cofee and some evil pancakes. They got to be real people with a real culture. The Jedi tried to chase the Sith away from the galaxy. If you are playing a lightside Sith, you do NOT jump over and join the people commiting genocide against you're people" Daniel Erickson

Also, here is another Old Republic article.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6199726.html

Indeed, BioWare went to great lengths to make the ostensible villains sympathetic, going into the LucasFilm and LucasArts archives and researching the Great Hyperspace War for background on the Sith. "The Sith were literally chased out of the galaxy by the Jedi," explained Erickson. "You had an entire culture and people who were pushed out of known space. So you get these guys who come back and have a big chip on their shoulder. So if you're playing on their side as a good guy, you're not going to just go run over to the Republic, because the Republic tried to wipe out your entire people."

Erickson hopes such background will make the Sith Empire more compelling than the evil factions of other MMORPGs. "These [Imperials] are actual people," he said. "They don't get up in the morning and say, 'What can we do that's evil today?' They have to have a legitimate point of view. You have to believe when you're playing that the things you're doing make sense and be proud of where you are. "

From Designing the Dark Side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgz48n74_js

"Its not a chance to be evil, thats NOT what the Dark Side is about. it's about passion, competition, the thrill of victory. And ofcourse the strongest should rule"

So....Bioware says the Sith ARENT evil.

Comment by Ldogg made on December 23rd, 2009 at 8:23am

Comment by Force Feedback Friday made on October 9th, 2009 at 9:21am

Comment by JoleeBindoFTW made on October 6th, 2009 at 2:40pm

Comment by Avaro made on October 6th, 2009 at 11:02am

Comment by Zihn made on October 6th, 2009 at 10:02am

I think you have to seperate the government from its citizens. It could easily be said that Sith force users are evil, because they have become corrupted by the dark side of the force. The rest of the population, though, are just regular folk. Some are good, some are bad. I see the Sith Empire sorta like Iraq back in the days of Hussein. The government and its supreme leader were evil, no doubt about it. The evidence is pretty clear. But the citizens, even the soldiers for the most part, weren't evil, but loyal. Some were loyal to their government and probably just as evil, but many (I'd guess the majority) were loyal to their country. That's basically how I see the Sith Empire. The Empire, as an entity, is evil as are its force users. The citizens are just followers of their culture but not inherently evil. I think that's pretty much how BW is intending to portray them. It would be nice if they'd clear up the confusion, though.

Comment by TOR: Good, Bad, I’m made on October 6th, 2009 at 8:38am

Comment by Bzrk made on October 6th, 2009 at 1:56am

Comment by DinesenDK made on October 6th, 2009 at 10:44am

Comment by DinesenDK made on October 5th, 2009 at 5:39pm

DH Team

Comment by Zoidberg made on October 5th, 2009 at 6:42pm

Comment by DinesenDK made on October 6th, 2009 at 6:20am

Comment by TaboriHK made on October 5th, 2009 at 5:25pm

It's more about restraint vs. freedom. The Jedi represent order, and peace, but not freedom. The Sith represent chaos, and free will, but not restraint. Their codes of morality are entirely different, and both in their own way are incongruous to normal society. For a Sith, doing what you want is their moral imperative, while for the Jedi, it's to keep their idea of structure imposed on the galaxy. In a way both are evil, and neither are. Sith are artists but in a Marquis De Sade sort of way and Jedi are peacekeepers but in an authoritarian sort of way. It's more complicated than good and evil.

What mixes this up is that in the films they are presented as the opposite. Jedi are a symbol of hope and freedom and the Sith are a symbol of control and forced unity. If you think about it in this way, than Luke Skywalker is not a hero by the Jedi code's rigid standard but he's a champion of the Alliance. And Darth Vader is somewhat of a hypocrite to the Sith code but he's a champion of the Empire. The expanded universe shows that in the end, the Rebel Alliance as a whole is not a morally superior organization, just a different one. I think Bioware is trying to accomplish the same thing here.

Comment by Revix2k9 made on October 5th, 2009 at 2:25pm

Comment by Sztanyi made on October 5th, 2009 at 2:22pm

first off id like to say i really liked this comparison: "he thought being that an Allied soldier in WW2 could be Ã¢ÂÂbadÃ¢ÂÂ and still be fighting for a positive cause while an Axis soldier could be Ã¢ÂÂgoodÃ¢ÂÂ and yet continue fighting for a negative cause"

Anyway, my thoughts on this topic is that you can't define the sith as evil, but you can't define them as being less evil then the jedi either, since people will always argue for one or the other, it all depends on how we, as individuals see it.

While i do see the argument for sith being not-so-evil, you have to remember that when a sith takes over a world, the people on that planet are like semi-slaves forced to do things for the sith.
Also the sith would not hesitate to destroy a whole planet (as shown in both the movies and in Kotor). So while their ideals may not be evil, many of their actions are. The jedi are the opposite, they try to suppress their feelings and emotions, which may seem evil, but their actions are (usually) good.

Comment by XANE made on October 5th, 2009 at 1:42pm

Please keep in mind the reason that Jedi and Sith ever split into two different factions: Jedi wanted to only study puppies and rainbows while Sith wanted to study the whole world, pleasant and less than pleasant.
The school subjects that were garnishing the most critisism from the rainbow and puppy camp?
Sith wanted to study cybernetics, new ways of making new force resistant metal alloys, and breeding similar animals together to make stronger smarter pets and farm animals.
Just because there's one guy in Central America that makes dogs fight each other to the death does not mean that the dog breeder Karl Friedrich Louis Dobermann was evil.
Sith faught and bled for the right to choose your own life, even if that choice led one out of every hundred to evil. A life led by passion (ie doing what you love).

If the Jedi had their way, everyone who ever had a stong connection to the force would be rounded up (against their will) at the age of five, never see their parents again, learn only half of the big picture, be used as pawns to enforce the rediculous mandates of a council who can't decide what they're having for lunch, and die a virgin (if a high midichlorian count is genetic then they've been selectively breeding the warriors out of their own society for 25,000 years and wouldn't know it because genetics is a taboo subject!)

If Sith had their way, then everyone would do what they wanted in life (providing you can defend what's yours).

In summary, please spend five minutes on Wookiepedia before you start yelling from the mountains that all Sith are evil; we're just not fans of inquisitions, book burnings, state funded kidnapping, social and behavioral reprogramming, dead end jobs, or dieing a virgin.

.....are you?

DH Team

Comment by Dover made on October 5th, 2009 at 2:28pm

DH Team

Comment by Zoidberg made on October 5th, 2009 at 1:54pm

Comment by XANE made on October 5th, 2009 at 2:03pm

Comment by DinesenDK made on October 6th, 2009 at 7:05am