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Podcast
11/17/09 2:00 AM -
Darth Hater Episode 13 - Strappin on the Stealth Belts 
by sado
, posted November 17th, 2009 at 2:00 AM
Episode 13 of the Darth Hater podcast is now up for stream and download. Check the bottom of the post for the stream and download links. Podcast notes after the jump.

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Intro
Justin Lowe - Sado - Twitter: @realdarthhater
Pete Trerice - Misenus - Twitter: @petetrerice
Josh Coleman - Colm - Twitter: @colmination
Josh Ogborn - Sleeper - @dhsleeper
Ben Dover Stiers

Segments
1. Imperial Agent (Dover)
a. Introduction (Dover)
a2. Sado and Dover talk about the walkthrough, lead into the Holonet review
WALKTHROUGH http://darthhater.com/2009/11/14/imperial-agent-demo-walkthrough/
a3. Discuss the Jake Neri interview on the Imperial Agent (Dover/Sado)
INTERVIEW:http://darthhater.com/2009/11/13/interview-with-jake-neri-on-the-imperial-agent/
MP3File1 (Jake Neri on Opener to General Combat Tactics)
Discuss File1
MP3File2 (Furthering on the combat tactics and abilities)
Discuss File2
MP3File3 (Stealth)
Discuss File3
MP3File4 (Closing)
b1. Holonet Review (sado) (Weapons, armor, tactics)
HOLONET: http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/imperial-agent
b2. Discuss the Portable Barrier, Stealth Belt (Colm start the discussion)
d. Community questions, comments or poll results related to this topic (Sleeper)
POLL: http://darthhater.com/2009/11/14/community-poll-questions-for-this-weeks-podcast-2/

COMMENTS ON IMPERIAL AGENT
PercMerc - Of the classes theyve announced so far I cant see them giving stealth to anyone else. They could always announce new classes and change my mind. But for now I dont see the smugglers using stealth.
Pinio - My answer is no. Because we can expect, something compare to agent, you know some kind of symmetry not strictly mirror. It would be unnatural if on 8 classes only one can move unseen. IMO smuggler could has something like stealth ability. I know that smuggler is a little rowdy, romantic hero, but not always looking for audience. Han often used cover and stealth to attain his targets. Maybe good way to give to this class stealth is dress for someone. Get clothes from dead body, or steal them from somewhere Remember that smuggler is smuggling class, so he/she cant do this only by go cover to cover. IMO it fit good to this class even if we base only on movies like I wrote several posts below.
Remlish - I think that there will be a Republic Mercenary class to go up against the Bounty Hunter and it will use the Stealth Belt ala KOTORs Mandalorian Neo-Crusaders seen in both games. In my opinion Republic Trooper is shown as a Heavy Armor class and Bounty Hunter is shown as a Medium Armor class so with that logic we should expect to see a Republic Medium Armor class and an Empire Heavy Armor class.

3. OTX Research (Pete)

Torrent Version
 

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52 Comments
Comment by Gugenhagen made on November 22nd, 2009 at 6:21pm
I hate to crash a party (not really), but intro music: Please lose it. It's dreadfully dull.
 
Comment by Lugano made on November 20th, 2009 at 5:45am
Another great podcast! I have to say though, of all the classes introduced so far, I'm least excited for the imperial agent, but that is just my play style I think. I'm for of a "run into the middle of a crowd of people and whirlwind everything to death" kind of guy

Edit: Just listened to the podcast again and I had a thought (shocking, I know) but I really believe that there is going to be a republic class that has similar abilities to the agent. Maybe a "senator/diplomat" class similar to Leia. The class doesn't need to have stealth, but they could have that commander feel to them
 
Comment by kamakaze189 made on November 18th, 2009 at 9:17am
Another Great Podcast! :)
 
Comment by Darth Hater Visits San Fr made on November 17th, 2009 at 11:04pm
[...] talk to many of the developers, one such conversation with Jake Neri, producer at Lucas, was on our recent podcast. We had a great time with all of the people at Lucas Arts and even got them to take a picture with [...]
 
Comment by Deidare made on November 17th, 2009 at 10:20pm
“Every tiny pixel” Haha that was great guys “Agents Bag of tricks” Some great stuff guys. It really was good.

On a more serious note, I have to say that this talk over the Agents "stealth Belt" is really just starting to become ridiculous, people on the forums are beginning to meld it in ways in which it doesn't even make sense. I don't get it, but It seems like most people on the forums never played an MMO in their life. (I'm not trying to be offense; I'm just stating my observations. Sorry if it applies to anyone.)

Example: WoW had implement stealth from the moment of its release. Yeah they had issues with it at first, but then again all MMOs have troubles when they first come out. But now it’s a fine and easy to use mechanic. It’s not OP or anything, its flows with the rest of the game. And yet some people think that the stealth belt would be an equip-able item? If they'd play an MMO they'd know that in everyone stealth has been a move, you get at whatever level, you turn it on, it turns off if you’re hit, if you get close enough to an enemy they can see you, and you can also manually turn it off. I could be wrong and maybe it would be an item, but 110% of me says that it won't (and no, I'm not going to 200% :P). It’s going to be an ability, which the Agent can activate, and will more or less likely be like WoWs stealth. And maybe even the Smuggler may get one too, were not sure yet, but that’s a different subject.

Not cause WoW's the god of MMOs or anything, but because it has a ground level basics, and most of its moves and combat are easy to do and understand. But all the talk about stealth on the forums and how it won't happen or how every class should do it so that it "balances" is just pish posh. It’s normally reignited, because players hear "rumors" and then those rumors go out of control into something totally different. I'm not saying I’m right, but I’m as sure as heck saying that I could be.

If you read this far, thanks! And I'm sorry for sounding so aggressive, and once again, great job guys. I envy you for not getting to go to Lucas Arts myself :P. Can't wait for the next podcast!
 
Comment by Pinio made on November 18th, 2009 at 6:14am
I never play in MMO so I can only post my loosely ideas. I think there is place for people who don't compare any game aspect to WoW :) It sad in some way, that there are so many similarities between TOR and WoW, or we only suspect them? I hope BW make better game ;)
 
DH Team
Comment by Dover made on November 18th, 2009 at 9:46am
Wow is just the most common example to pull from. To be honest, if Lord of the Rings Online had 11 million players then we would be referencing the stealth that the Burglar uses, or comparing the Sith Warrior to a Champion or Guardian. I would even go so far as making comparisons with Everquest if I thought the readers would understand my descriptions.

In other words, I wouldn't worry about it. There are similarities, but there are also similarities between Borderlands and Fallout 3. ;-)
 
Comment by Deidare made on November 18th, 2009 at 11:01am
Yeah, I'm just getting at, that don't believe everything that comes up on the forums. As obvious as that may sound some people believe it. I'm not saying WoWs better than the other MMO's either, its just that most anyone whose going to play this probably played WoW.

@Panzzer- Well actually I'm saying that you wont be able to "un-equip" it. It'll more or less likely end up being a move that will be some where on your action bar, that you can activate on and off, but with and cool-down, and draw back obviously.

@Pinio- Yeah your right, it is kind of sad, but almost all MMOs "have" WoWs aspects. Now I'm not saying WoW was the first MMO, defiantly not. But that its a base line, an MMO almost everyone's played once at least. As well as its easy to understand. But yeah, I too hope BW in a way makes swtor different than WoW. I played that game for 5 years and then after seeing swtor I finally realized how addicted I was, and how boring it was becoming. I hope it has some aspects, and I hope it has its own news ones all together :).

@Dover- Yeah, I'm not trying to down grade other MMOs Like I said before its just most everyone's probably been through WoW to at least level 10, and its just the base line. But if LR online was more popular I'm sure I'd be talking about its stealth system, I'm just using WoW so people understand. And yeah Dover, I noticed it had some apocalyptic aspects from BL and Fallout too ;).
 
Comment by Panzzer made on November 18th, 2009 at 1:36am
So your saying the belt will be apart of the agent, an un-equipable piece of clothing that the agent wears that follows basic "WoW" invisibility rules.

Fair enough
 
Comment by PercMerc made on November 17th, 2009 at 7:55pm
Another great podcast guys! Thanks for the quote. Made me all warm and fuzzy in my midi-chlorians. I have 19,999 per cell and would have more but... videogames... crap!
 
DH Team
Comment by sado made on November 18th, 2009 at 12:35am
Thanks for the feedback guys, glad you guys enjoyed it.
 
Comment by Deidare made on November 17th, 2009 at 10:27pm
I saw that as someones signature on swtor website, haha. If thats were you saw it, cause they were a wookie, so I exspect their "midi-chlorains" to be fuzzy.
 
DH Team
Comment by sado made on November 17th, 2009 at 7:27pm
Issue with the feed is now fixed if you guys we're having problems with the feed.

http://darthhater.com/2009/11/17/podcast-feed-fixed/
 
Comment by ShavedEwok made on November 17th, 2009 at 2:10pm
Hi guys

First off, great podcast.

Second, sorry if this is already known to you, but as you discussed the "energy field" (aka "Portable Cover") gadget, I noticed something about it that might be of interest.

When watching the Holonet video of this gadget, I noticed that the flashing lights on the two top corner "modules" change color over time. They start out as green, but then change color to orange later on. Could this perhaps be some form of shield status indicator? Either in terms of energy remaining, or perhaps just a simple timer?

Anyway, just thought I'd mention it...sorry if it's old news to you guys (knowing you it probably is).

Again, thanks for a very nice podcast and for the great work of the Dath Hater team.

Cheers

SE
 
DH Team
Comment by Dover made on November 17th, 2009 at 2:24pm
Good call SE,

I noticed the indicators but didn't notice a color change. Seeing as I'm colorblind, I miss the little things like that. It will be interesting to see if that's because of damage taken or because of time.
 
Comment by Xavier made on November 17th, 2009 at 4:03pm
I feel your pain Dover,
I'm color blind and it cost me two awesome career paths when I was in the Navy. First, I was recruited for the nuclear engineering program. Until that is, they found out I was colorblind. A few years later, while on Active Duty, I was approached by the Army to jump ship (no pun intended) from Navy to Army for the High School to Flight School program. I was this close to going to flight school for Apache helicopters. Then, they found out I was color blind. *Sigh*
 
DH Team
Comment by Zoidberg made on November 17th, 2009 at 7:23pm
The doctor says I am kinda colorblind, but I dont believe him. I just cant make out the numbers in the crazy dot test they give me.
 
Comment by PercMerc made on November 17th, 2009 at 7:43pm
You're not alone Zoidberg... you're not alone.
 
DH Team
Comment by Dover made on November 17th, 2009 at 5:14pm
That sucks
 
Comment by Asomatous made on November 17th, 2009 at 1:33pm
I do not know, I'm afraid of every class having multiple CC, from past experience when everyone has CC, the group PVP encounters become all about just constantly CC'ing the other person, a CC fest if you will.
 
Comment by Team made on November 17th, 2009 at 4:11pm
im in the pro-cc crowd. without it just comes down to who can mash their damage buttons the fastest. cc adds some strategy to pvp.
 
Comment by Panzzer made on November 18th, 2009 at 1:38am
and PVE! :)
 
DH Team
Comment by Dover made on November 17th, 2009 at 2:08pm
I think we will have to approach TOR from a fresh perspective though. I, personally, have never playerd a game where crowd control was a such a key combat aspect for every single class. PVP combat will have to adjust to this idea, where controlling combat with CC could be more important then doing damage.

If you think about it, avoiding damage is really the next step in RPG combat. If I make sure you don't hit me, then I'm also making sure that I stay alive to hit you. In previous MMOs the goal has been to purely DPS down your target before they do the same to you, using CC to escape or prevent escape, the exception being the dreaded stunlock rogue in WoW. However, if everyone has equal crowd control then the goal of combat for ever class becomes controlling your opponent, and when everyone can do a little stun-locking it stopping being special and overpowered.

I rememeber back before LOTRO came out they were talking about making it so there wasn't a health bar, it was a stamina bar that ebbed and flowed with combat. The idea being that Aragron was never hit by a blow so there was no damamge to take so long as he could control the flow of battle. It always seemed like the "right" way to go to me, so I appreciate fresh takes on combat and I can't wait to see how this plethora of minor crowd control will work in PVP.
 
Comment by ThoughtBomb made on November 17th, 2009 at 2:11pm
If you think back to DD, not getting hit in order to stay alive was the premise upon which RPGs were built. When we entered the Hummer era of "huge HP/armor means cooler stats", we started getting away from the notion that evasion was the way to survive an encounter. It should be interesting to see a return to survivability over durability.
 
DH Team
Comment by Dover made on November 17th, 2009 at 2:26pm
Exactly. I personally think that watching 3 Jedi Knights fighting 3 Sith Warriors is much more interesting with them controlling combat with chokes, force pushes, and clashing lightsabers, as opposed to just seeing 6 guys repeatedly hitting each other with glow sticks.
 
Comment by Deidare made on November 17th, 2009 at 7:30pm
I too have noticed that Biowares bringing the CC back. I liked CC and survivability in the early days or WoW. But no, now its all about armor, and pew pew. Nothing really challengeing or strategized. I glad Bioware will do CC and still have heavy duty armor to boot.
 
Comment by Panzzer made on November 17th, 2009 at 3:42pm
Not only does CC drastically effect PVP, but PVE also. I think TOR raids are going to have way more ads than WoW did. CC could come in hand there.
 
Comment by Pinio made on November 17th, 2009 at 3:15pm
Simply - direction of gameplay should go in simulation way not base on characteristic :) (e.g. like difference between Morrowind and Oblivion). More real, less classic RPG. If someone hit me then I'm wounded. I know that TOR hasn't "one ligthsaber hit in head = dead" system also there be no dismemberment. But BW way is better by far than "classic" MMO method. For me there should be no class and fully physical universe... blah blah ;)
 
Comment by Asomatous made on November 17th, 2009 at 2:39pm
I see your points of view, and they are optimistic, which is great. I just don't want to see a Warhammer combat happen all over again, rather then people actually dieing, the whole group vs. group combat was about staying away from each other and getting 1 person pulled into your side and killing them. Everyone was CC'ed and tanks/melee classes just ran around like idiots being distractions, cause everyone would always CC them and leave them for last, focus on casters/ranged.
 
Comment by Raithnor made on November 17th, 2009 at 11:56am
As much as I hate to want to accept it I think that last two character classes are going to be "Force-Casters". To be fair though I have a feeling Bio-Ware is going mix it up slightly and make them more "Jedi/Sith Diplomat/Politicians" than "Pure Force users". One of the primary reasons is due to the fact of the Agent filling the "Imperial Officier Role".

Here's my reasoning:

The Webcomic

We've had two full chapters and one extra entry so far. In that time we've seen Jedi, Sith, Troopers, Bounty Hunters, and Agents. We haven't seen the smuggler yet, but the smuggler had it's own timeline entry.

If you notice Baras has a "Palapatine"-feel, only he seems more middle management and on the Jedi side Satele Shan has a more-than-passing resemblence to Princess Leia. So I'm thinking the "Iconic" part for the last Jedi class is going to involve "Jedi Leia" in some way, while the Sith Class is going for the Palpatine as "Master Politician" with Force Power

I think if we were going to see a "main" character that could be a playable character class we would have already seen it in the comic by now. The only other characters of note have been Republic Senators, Rebel and Imperial Officiers, there was also a crime lord but he came across more as an NPC quest giver.

The timeline

The next two timeline entries have to deal with the beginning of the Sith Invasion and the period between the Kotor games and the Sith Invasion when the Republic was rebuilding. Both entries have less to do with combat and more to do with planning and negotiating. All of the earlier timeline entries after that have more to do with recapping earlier Star Wars history than something that might affect game play.

Starting planets

We had four starting planets with the Agent and Bounty Hunter on Nal Hutta and the Smuggler and Tropper on Ord Mantell. The Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior start on Tython and Korriban, respectively. The back story of both planets include a political angle, a Twi'lek colony on Tython and the machinations of the Sith Academy on Korriban. It's possible that you could have a non-force using class on both planets, but whatever they're doing it's not going to be as combat-intensive as the other classes.

Class Balance

In the classes we've seen there's no "support focused" character. The Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior have some support/controls but the focus is in melee combat. I'm not saying that BioWare is going to make a character class that can't be soloed and doesn't have any damage, it's just that the class will have a Support/Control Focus as opposed to the Knight/Warrior Saber Focus. Plus this give the game 4 melee classes and 4 ranged classes.

Alternatives

Maybe they'll suprise us and have a Diplomat and Officer class, but at this point I doubt it. Mostly because I don't think they could have it be that different from the Smuggler or Agent.
 
Comment by PercMerc made on November 17th, 2009 at 7:49pm
I'm still hoping with all hopes that they give us the chance, nay, the priviledge of the mandalorian class on Sith side. Ever since throwing on some mandalorian armor in KOTOR I've been hooked. Plus after seeing a basilisk war droid in Force Unleashed... They just HAVE to!
 
Comment by Team made on November 17th, 2009 at 4:13pm
the sith warrior has force choke, aoe force lightning, force jump and a self-heal. those are just the force powers we have seen. i cant justify a class based on force powers when the force users we have now already use the available canon force powers.
 
DH Team
Comment by Dover made on November 17th, 2009 at 12:00pm
Nice rundown. That would be an interesting way to go, bridging the gap between the 4 force user crowd and the diplomat/officer crowd by making a Jedi Diplomat and a Sith Officer. Would be weird if everyone was right lol

well that is, everyone but those of us that want it to be a Droid Engineer of some sort. (come on Young Anakin Archetype!)
 
Comment by Raithnor made on November 17th, 2009 at 12:33pm
I'm thinking Engineering/Medic abilities will be done though skills similar to Mass Effect's Electronics/Decryption/First Aid skills.

Replace "Medi-Gel" with "Bacta" and/or "Kolto"

So you might be able to have a Jedi Knight who tinkers with Droids and Starfighters in his/her spare time and Smugglers who more of a shipboard medic than a pilot.

You "could" build a class around being a Engineer/Medic/Slicer, but Bioware seems to be going for the Archetype approach than the Occupational approach. So you'll have sub-classes and specialties rather than "You're an Engineer".

I'm really interested in what Mass Effect 2 is going to be like since it's very much KotoR with the serial numbers filed off.
 
DH Team
Comment by Dover made on November 17th, 2009 at 1:09pm
I would love to hear about specialties, but like I said on the podcast, I think we are going to be hearing about abilities and combat now.

First it was Story, now it's Combat.
 
Comment by Pinio made on November 17th, 2009 at 3:51pm
But there would be diplomat in Leia type not Obama. Don't mix two universes ;)
 
Comment by Panzzer made on November 17th, 2009 at 3:46pm
I seriously doubt a diplomat class. Sure it would be good for story, but combat? Obama's a cool guy but no fighter ;)
 
Comment by Deidare made on November 17th, 2009 at 10:57am
A very interesting podcast, I'm going to have to listen a couple more times to evaluate on it! Very good guys! Thanks again. Oh and creative post name: Strap on the Stealth belt, sounds totally cool. Great job! I'll defently need to roll an Agent alt now!
 
Comment by Flagg made on November 17th, 2009 at 6:40am
Another great podcast guys. The community really appreciates the way you guys try to keep us "In the loop". Well, I know I do anyway.

Big Cheers to you guys.
+1 Yoda fountain
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3299/3180381690_0d2e4cbf37.jpg?v=0 />
/Flagg
 
Comment by Deidare made on November 17th, 2009 at 7:32pm
Rockin Foutain, I'd pay my hard earned cash for that, but were would i put it... Hmm.... (Thinks about shoveing it into bathroom...)
 
DH Team
Comment by sado made on November 17th, 2009 at 7:08am
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2767/4100569211_97a9a0285f_b.jpg

From our trip.
 
Comment by Panzzer made on November 17th, 2009 at 3:47pm
lmao wow thats so cool, i want one.
 
Comment by DirectX made on November 17th, 2009 at 6:11am
Schhweet episode ;) Meeting the Bioware team at PAX was amazing, can't believe you guys got to go to Lucas HQ! *jealous*
 
Comment by Fedaykin made on November 17th, 2009 at 4:49am
Thanks for another podcast guys!

About the portable cover: This is -very- simular to a little skill the Engineers have in the game Battlefield 2142, so it has been thought of before -but- the implementation of this + it working together with the cover system is totally amazing.
 
Comment by Team made on November 17th, 2009 at 3:39am
another great podcast, i was gonna leave a voicemail but this weeks topic didnt leave room for much debate or speculation. tell bw/la they need to release that imperial agent footage.
 
Comment by DirectX made on November 17th, 2009 at 6:12am
Agreed. Dover and Sado, after seeing the footage, do you think it is something that is tailored to be released to the general public after a while?
 
DH Team
Comment by Dover made on November 17th, 2009 at 9:04am
I think it could be. The room was sparsely decorated and all the mobs were the same, so it didn't have many possibilities for spoilers. I could see a shorter version coming out with some voiceovers similar to the flashpoint demo we saw earlier this year.

BUT there has been no indication from BioWare or Lucas that this will happen, so that's all speculation on my end.
 
Comment by ryda made on November 17th, 2009 at 2:45am
Kind of interesting how Jake states that "out of all the classes, the imp agent is the least iconic" so I cant see the last 2 classes to be any thing but jedi/sith casters..
 
Comment by Team made on November 17th, 2009 at 3:42am
i dont want to turn this into a 4 force users debate so i am just going to state this: in my opinion it makes no sense because one, a whole class based on spamming force lightning is shallow and two, the jedi/sith have been shown to be profficient in force powers
 
Comment by Pinio made on November 17th, 2009 at 5:59am
Yep. At now nothing to add ;) For me it will be quite artificially if BW give us more force user class. Besides if agent is non-supericonic, then there is reason to expect another original classes :)
 
Comment by Bzrk made on November 17th, 2009 at 9:11am
I think the agent is VERY iconic. Not from the movies, but from the Expanded Universe. If this is the least iconic class and another set of force-users would not be in, than I guess we're up for some good classes. :)
 
Comment by Pinio made on November 17th, 2009 at 9:29am
If we keep in mind EU probably all possibly classes would be iconic. There is a problem, that many are familiar only with movies, so if BW say that some class are known hero archetype, that IMO they tell about films motifs. EU take it all ;)