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12/3/09 4:12 AM -
Smuggler Class Trees 
by Dover
, posted December 3rd, 2009 at 4:12 AM
Character advancement and customization are integral parts of all RPGs and many titles have succeeded or failed solely because of their approach to these mechanics. For over a year now, we have waited patiently for the first hints of how we will customize our characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic and now the first official clues are being revealed. During our time at LucasArts we were able to see a small example of how advancement and customization will be handled in TOR.
 
Buried between the Imperial Agent demo and Sith Inquisitor/Jedi Consular reveal, we were shown one example of how players will be able to customize the Smuggler class. The presentation consisted of a single, simple image we have attempted to recreate below.


The presentation continued with Blaine Christine, producer from BioWare, explaining what the different routes meant for players. He focused first on the Gunslinger path, explaining that a Smuggler following this path will focus on dual blasters and will be using the cover mechanic frequently. He also mentioned that this type of character could use persuasion more then the second path, possibly leading to different dialogue or story options unavailable to Smugglers following a different specialty.

The second path, called Scoundrel, is vastly different then its dual oriented counterpart. This specialty focuses on abilities that have only recently become associated with the Smuggler class. The first ability Blaine mentioned was the Scoundrels affinity for stealth and how this allows them to move close to their opponents, possibly implying they have a skill similar to the Imperial Agents Shiv. He then noted that this path also gave the Smuggler access to healing abilities. However he failed to note any specific ability or skill names associated with either of these paths.

Later in the evening we were able to talk to Jake Neri and ask a few specific questions about these paths and how they could work in the final product. The following is an excerpt from the interview, specifically the area that focuses on the Smuggler skill and advancement in general.


Dover: You you also showed us the Skill Tree idea, the ability to go into the customization of the characters and make it your own. We saw the Smuggler starting off as a Smuggler and then possibly branching off into two different directions, one being a Gunslinger and the other being a Scoundrel. How does this split work out?

Sado: Are they set defined paths or is there room for customization?

Jake Neri: There is definitely room for customization. We didn't show tremendous amounts of detail on that because it is really in development right now. The concept of being able to go into those directions and have a different, defined play experience is what we are trying to show. We know we will have people that go, hey I'm in love with being a smuggler but I just prefer to stay at range. Or I like to be more of a stealth class, I want to sneak around and do things, I don't want to fight. Or maybe I want to sneak up on people.

In Smugglers, the different trees allow you to do that. Trees are the best way to describe them now. We don't have official nomenclature on how we are talking about these but you guys get the concept of skill trees. You go down a path, you're applying certain skill points in there, and you're going in a direction you like to play.

What we are trying to show with Medicine is that maybe your in a situation where you need a healer type to get through. Smuggling doesn't necessarily immediately make people think about healing. People say, wow. That is weird. But at the same time we always try to stretch into the Star Wars cannon and do things that aren't conventional and that was one of those things we talked about earlier with Leland Chee.

We went to him and said, We have smugglers and we want to do something interesting what do you think? They have this whole lore around black market medicine and organ leggers that are in touch with different spices and other things, and through that, Smugglers are in touch with underworld medicine. Because, like Blaine talked about, you cant always be heading to the doc when you're a Smuggler because your running around. You're doing dirty deeds.

Dover: You also talked about cutting open the tauntaun. Field medicine.

Jake Neri: Yeah, field medicine. We've been joking a lot about that. I don't know if it totally works, but Blaine has stuck with that and we appreciate him for that. The main thing is that we are trying to do interesting things with the classes by making sure that you can be that range class you want to be and in a pinch you can also be useful to a group. That is sort of why we chose that to show you.

Sado: You talked about persuade in those branches as well, that the gunslinger would be the one with extra points in persuade to be able to possibly activate more story. Does that mean that somebody will have to go that way if they want to experience more story or will there be some way of counteracting that?

Jake Neri: I don't think you have to do anything. If you're a fan of story and you're looking to drill into that the most, that fits along with what we are saying with choose your playstyle. It doesn't mean that you should have any more or less an experience as anyone else, but that it should be the experience you like. And if you're a fan of story and you're trying to find new and interesting things, then you should be trying to win conversations if that appeals to you.

I imagine that the guy who wants to be the Scoundrel first may re-roll another character and go down that path because he wants to try persuade. Or maybe he just doesn't care about it because he wants to be more of a stealthy guy who wants to run up behind people and shoot them in the back.

I get nervous of the words you have to do something because that is sort of the opposite of what we are trying to say. We really want people to play the way they are dreaming about it. We cant cover every possibility but we are trying to bring a lot of options so that people do have choice.

Dover: Two more quick things about that before we let you get back to all the other things going on here in San Francisco. First, at the end of the presentation you said, Players should be able to quickly get into the role that they want to get into. Did that comment have to do with the possibility of switching between paths? Or does that mean at the beginning of the game you can quickly get into the play style you want to get into?

Jake Neri: Without going into a ton of detail on that, because that system is still in development, a key goal is that once you reach a certain level and you enabled those certain paths, or you experienced whatever it takes to enable those paths, you can go in between them quickly. That is the heart of what were saying. You cant do everything all at once, you need to earn some of these things, but once you have done that and you are in a situation where hey, I need this type of a gameplay/class build, you'll be able to go into that quickly.

Dover: Awesome. Last one before we let you go. You mentioned the Scoundrel of the Smuggler branch has Medicine. We were able to see the Sith Inquisitor with an actual heal that is able to use it on themselves or another person and we also saw the Benevolence ability for the Consular. Are we going to see healing options for every class if a player wants to go that direction?

Jake Neri: I don't think every class. But I do think you guys are picking up on the idea that when it comes to grouping we don't want you to always be frustrated because you cant find the right group. We want you to have utility in order to be successful in a solo experience or in a group. Now Smuggler, Inquisitor and Consular are three examples of healing.

I think if you would have played the Jedi Knight you wouldn't have seen that same stuff. Instead, you would have seen a rejuvenate ability for most classes, which is in support of us wanting to have quick-paced gameplay. It is similar to Bandage, an out of combat ability, where the other heals you have seen are more in combat. You guys are simply picking up on some of the classes that might be able to so some healing in the game.


Many interesting game facts are found in the interview, including possible respecs, branching dialogue based on skills, and the fact that many classes (not just Consulars and Inquisitors) will have true healing paths. This small peak into their approach to skill customization answers many questions from the community, and undoubtedly generates quite a few more. As we look forward to the new year we cant wait to have these new questions answered as well.

As a reminder to all of the information hungry fans out there, we were told repeatedly, as you can see in the interview, that the current state of skill trees in The Old Republic is far from finalized. Although multiple, vastly divergent paths would be welcome in our eyes, they should not be expected in the final product until otherwise stated by BioWare and LucasArts.

25 Comments
Comment by Charting A Path to Class made on December 18th, 2009 at 7:38am
[...] In this speculative chart, we outline a few obvious additions to our previous example. We believe the class customization options will be extremely deep once a player chooses their particular path. So deep, in fact, a single specialty could contain the same relative complexity as an entire World of Warcraft class. Instead of three talent trees, you may have as many as nine talent trees to quickly move points between when you want to adjust your play style. Such an intricate level of customization would fit with Gordon Walton’s desire to stand out in the eyes of the MMO community, and fulfill BioWare’s promise to give gamers “a different, defined play experience.” [...]
 
Comment by Darth Hater Episode 15 &# made on December 16th, 2009 at 2:55am
[...] with Alex - Impressions of gameplay - Impressions of class design (class paths related trees) - Possible Planets - Impact of Companions on grouping - Things that must not [...]
 
Comment by Speculation: Wearing A Pa made on December 14th, 2009 at 12:10am
[...] Jake Neri told us that as you progress, you will reach a point where you will pick one of two paths that are very distinct from one another. In the example of the Sith Warrior, it makes sense that you would start out looking like a combination of the two paths in order to get the experience of the core class. If you pick the damage path, then you will wear visually lighter armor, possibly assisted by cybernetics, to dual wield lightsabers in a quick, hack and slash manner. In contrast, if you pick the support path, then you would focus on Darth Vader-like hulking damage mitigation to aid his allies. [...]
 
Comment by Deidare made on December 12th, 2009 at 3:52pm
I'm glad to hear that their pointing out a little more that you could be able to switch specs. Before it sounded like you could never switch paths. Question is though, whether there be different spec trees inside the paths that you can switch, and not the paths themselves. So much we have yet to learn.
 
Comment by Anthony made on December 8th, 2009 at 9:13am
I think people forget that the Smuggler, unlike some other classes uses a cover based system ( ie: ducking behind a box, a tree or corner cover near a wall ) in combat, which if you read in between the lines, gives you somewhat of a defense and evade bonus when others are shoting at you. Further more you'll have stun shots to slow down those NPCs attempting to close the gap on you, and you simply have to pick off ther range based shooters. It also would seem like Smugglers and their Bounty Hunter Counter parts will have a higher Armor Class ( ie: teir 3 level armor ( Mail ) ) than of course the Jedi or Sith Melee classes. The Sith and Jedi will more often than not have to close the gap between them and their enemies just to stun or slow down their enemies. ( Even those who thought the Inquis were strickly a ranged caster class ( like myself ) were proven wrong in another article on this site ) and will no have a cover based system, so they will be constantly under fire from all sides and can't duck behind a box and take COVER. As well as it has been said that the Jedi and Sith will have to wear teir 1 ( cloth ) to teir 2 ( leather ) based armor, so it would make sense they have in combat heals and such. Am I making any sense ? I'm not trying to bad mouth the Smugglers or place the Jedi and Sith on some pedistal. I'm simply offering my insight before anyone who was looking forward to this class gets put off.

I would assume as a Gunslinger you would use the cargo box to your advantage as you did as a smuggler and battle with a stun or poison gernade and pop out from behind the box with blazers a blazing.

Where as the the Scoundrel will be your Rogue/Assassin class. Sneaking in to close the gap, and perhaps debilitating one of your enemies while cutting down another with blaster fire, and then healing up from the ( no dobut ) close combat damage after its all said and done.

Both will no doubt use the cover system seen in many demo videos, but the Scoundrel is perhaps fore those players who would like to see more meele output without having to reroll Jedi.

As I said, I'm simply offering my insight and opinion from the information and knowledge I've read, and remembered and approached this as such.
 
Comment by Smuggler made on December 4th, 2009 at 1:57pm
I need healing! Heal me!
 
Comment by Panzzer made on December 4th, 2009 at 2:21pm
heal yourself lol
 
Comment by Deidare made on December 5th, 2009 at 10:36pm
Come on Panzzer throuh the kind a HoT or two. ;)
 
Comment by Cole made on December 4th, 2009 at 3:51am
Confused about this:

"I imagine that the guy who wants to be the Scoundrel first may re-roll another character and go down that path because he wants to try persuade."
Does this indicate that you can't change specializations?
 
Comment by tethadam made on December 4th, 2009 at 7:33pm
Effectively it turns the four classes per side into eight classes per side for a total of sixteen classes. That is a good, thing.
 
Comment by Deidare made on December 6th, 2009 at 12:22am
Yeah, you got a point there Teth, and then it appears as though that there could be different trees within the paths themselves. Leaving room for more customization.
 
DH Team
Comment by Dover made on December 4th, 2009 at 10:36am
we were talking about story specifically during that comment. What he means is, if someone has missed story options because they aren't that good at persuade, they could reroll a more persuasive character to see any story they may have already by-passed. I can see how that is confusing though.
 
Comment by keroko made on December 4th, 2009 at 7:59am
I would suppose not, no. I think it sounds similar to Aion, where at a certain level you get to choose your specialization. For example, a warrior may become a two-hander wielding Gladiator, focused on damage, or a shield-bearing Templar focused on defense. Once you made this choice, it's irreversible. This ties in with several comments previously made about choices being irreversible, like the infamous 'you have no save button' quote.
 
Comment by Patrick made on December 4th, 2009 at 1:34am
I hope there is a combat option that can improve performance with single blasters, not a fan of dual wielding them John Woo style.
 
Comment by Baraslan made on December 3rd, 2009 at 12:31pm
I like the idea of a smuggler healer. It makes sense to me. After all, smugglers can't just go to the local hospital. They want to know all those pesky details about 'How did you receive this blaster wound to your thigh?' and then they have to report it to the proper authorities, and then there's the running from the law and the limping as your wound that's still not been treated starts to fester, not to MENTION how are you supposed to be charming with that hideous scar?! Anyhow, you get the drift. The idea that smugglers know 'back-alley' medicine that's totally "Don't ask, don't tell - that will be 100 creds.. CASH." makes perfect sense to me. I am also quite excited that you don't HAVE to play a force-user to have healing support skills.
 
Comment by Stevarian made on December 3rd, 2009 at 7:15am
Wow. I am completely and utter dismayed at some key points in this information. I don't understand why on earth pistoleer should FOCUS on dual wielding - is it really that difficult for Bioware to understand that not everyone who prefers pistols has a raging hard-on for that? And I also strongly disagree with pistoleer, a specialisation, getting more convo options, rather than it being an option for both specs. These two factors combined, while not deterring me from playing this class (hell, nothing would really), have left me with no hope left for this being a truely wonderful game as opposed to a mediocre one at best - if they can come up with crap like this here, they'll probably do so in other parts of the game too.

Until they release information that confirms that going pistoleer and not picking up any dual wield skills will NOT totally gimp you in any way, I shall continue to be very disappointed.
 
Comment by RogueJedi86 made on December 3rd, 2009 at 6:51am
Remember all that healing Han Solo did? He sure healed a lot as a smuggler. Oh wait.......
 
Comment by Bzrk made on December 3rd, 2009 at 6:57am
That's not really the point now is it. The Smuggler class is the iconic part here. The abilities the Smuggler does or does not have, is not.

By the way, when did you any of the main characters use some kind of self-healing mechanism in the movies? Doesn't mean they didn't use anything.
 
Comment by RogueJedi86 made on December 3rd, 2009 at 12:11pm
But where did they pull this from? I've never seen it in the EU or movies before, despite them asking Leland Chee.

Medicine is a basic thing, so why don't Troopers, Agents, and Bounty Hunters have it too? For that matter, what's stopping the Force classes from using Medicine too? With something as basic as Medicine, shouldn't ALL classes be healers? What is it about Medicine that restricts it to just smugglers?
 
Comment by Bzrk made on December 3rd, 2009 at 2:08pm
Oh c'mon. Have you ever seen anyone in the movies or the EU go to the toilet? Doesn't mean they don't have to piss now does it.

And who says all other classes don't all have something like that? It's already known the JC and SI can heal.
 
Comment by RogueJedi86 made on December 3rd, 2009 at 9:23pm
There are multiple references to Refreshers in the EU, namely in ship reference guides. Refreshers(or 'freshers for short) are the SW term for bathrooms. So we know for a fact people in SW and the EU go to the bathroom. :)

And I know other classes can heal, and I was counting the non-Forcies, since Forcies have easy Force heals. But there's nothing about Medicine that screams that it would be Smuggler only. Maybe rename is to Spices or something? I don't know, but Medicine doesn't seem smuggler-specific.
 
Comment by Baraslan made on December 3rd, 2009 at 12:41pm
The other classes will have some kind of healing, which they defined as "...an out of combat ability, where the other heals you have seen are more in combat". SO they can't do it in the heat of battle, but if you live through it - you can patch yourself up. And if the other classes are more combat focused, that makes sense to me as well that their skill sets will be focused on winning the battle with an onslaught rather than being able to path themselves up between dodging or repelling blaster shots.
 
Comment by Bzrk made on December 3rd, 2009 at 5:34am
I like the "respect/treeswitch" thing you talked about. I'm very interested how they're gonna work that out.
 
Comment by Team made on December 3rd, 2009 at 4:40am
a smuggler healer, who woulda thought
 
Comment by Jake made on December 3rd, 2009 at 4:39am
Very interesting. Smuggler is one of the classes I'm looking at.